把不需要的app從mac上移除

 有些app還在運行無法移除，但Force Quit 又找不到，這時候要打開Activity Monitor去關掉它，在移除，點開Activity Monitor找出在運行的app，在點開選Quit, 之後就可以move to trash了。參考

燃燈節

 燃燈節དགའ་ལྡན་ལྔ་མཆོད། 

在每年的藏曆10月25日是紀念藏傳佛教 宗喀巴大師 的傳統節日

དམིགས་མེད་བརྩེ་བའི་གཏེར་ཆེན་སྤྱན་རས་གཟིཊ།།

無緣大悲寶庫觀世音

དྲི་མེད་མཁྱེན་པའི་དབང་པོ་འཇམ་དཔལ་དབྱངས།

無垢大智湧泉妙吉祥

བདུད་དཔུང་མ་ལུས་འཇོམས་མཛད་གསང་བའི་བདག

摧伏魔軍無余秘密尊

གངས་ཅན་མཁས་པའི་གཙུག་རྒྱན་ཙོང་ཁ་པ།

雪頂智嚴善巧宗喀巴

བློ་བཟང་གྲགས་པའི་ཞབས་ལ་གསོལ་བ་འདེབས།

賢慧普聞足下作白啓 

 紀念 藏傳佛教覺囊巴六百六十年紀念祈福法會。隨喜讚嘆 🙏

圖博口述歷史計畫:訪問第41任薩迦法王3/31/2017

圖博口述歷史計畫:訪問第41任薩迦法王3/31/2017 (中文翻譯 by Joe Lin ) 英文連接

Question: His Holiness the Dalai Lama asked us to record your experiences, so that we can share your memories with many generations of Tibetans, the Chinese and the rest of the world. Your memories will help us to document the true history, culture and beliefs of the Tibetan people. Do you give your permission for the Tibet Oral History Project to use this interview? 

問：法王達賴喇嘛請我們記錄您的經歷,所以我們可以分享你的回憶給很多世代的藏人,華人和這個世界. 您的回憶將會幫助我們記錄真實歷史,文化和藏人的信念.您允許圖博口述歷史計畫使用這訪問嗎?

#32U:Yes, of course.

薩迦法王：是的，當然。

Q: Thank you for offering to share your story with us.

問：感謝您允許分享您的故事給我們

#32U: [Smiles] 

薩迦法王：[微笑]

Q: Your Holiness, maybe we could begin at the beginning. Can you share with us some of your earliest memories of your childhood that you would like to share with people?

問：法王，也許我們可以從最初的時候開始。您可以分享您想分享的最初孩時記憶給人們嗎？

#32U:Yes, sure. I was born in 1945 a place called Tsedong, which is about 20 miles from Shigatse towards Lhasa, and there we have a monastery and also our own family land and house. So when my parents were traveling and staying there, I was born there in a very holy room where long time ago one of the earliest great masters was also born in the same room. And then when I was born, of course, they say there was some good signs and of course, that I don’t remember. Then also after that they have visited several holy places.

薩迦法王：好的。我是1945年出生在一個叫Tsedong的地方，離日喀則往拉薩的方向有20英里，我們有一間寺院和我們家族的土地和房子。所以當我的父母親旅行和住在那裡的時候，我出生在一個曾經很久以前出生過一個大師的神聖房間。當我出生的時候，他們說有一些很好的徵兆，當然我不記得了。之後他們又朝禮了數個聖地。

And then they came…after a year or two; they came to Sakya and had a very elaborate celebration of my birthday—my birthday celebrations in Sakya…Not the first birthday, but second or third or something like that. And then…my mother passed away when I was very young. So I don’t remember her very much.

然後經過了一年或兩年;他們來到了薩迦並且舉行了精美的我的慶生典禮，並不是一次但兩次或三次如此的。然後我母親在我很小的時候死了。所以我並對她記憶不多。

But my mother’s sister, my auntie, she took care of us. She was like my mother, actually more like my mother. She took care of us, educated us, and taught us everything and specially, she made arrangements [for us] to go to the different places to receive the initiations and teachings and transmissions and so on.

但我媽媽的姐妹， 我姨母，她照顧我們。她就像我媽媽，事實上更像是我媽。她照顧我們，教育我們，並教導我們每件事，特別是，她為我們組織了去不同地方接受灌頂和教導和傳授之類的。

And then, I remember my father quite well. I received several initiations from him and also when he was doing retreat, we used to go, I and my sister. Actually we have four [siblings]…The eldest one is my sister who lives in Canada.

而且, 我對父親記得很清楚. 我從他那接受很多灌頂, 當他閉關時我和我的姊妹們也前往. 事實上, 我們有4位兄弟姊妹, 最年長的是我姊姊她住在加拿大. 

Q: yes

問: 是的. 

#32U:：Then [the] second one is another son, but he died when he was very young. I didn’t see him; before I was born he already passed away. And then the third one is also another daughter. She, I remember quite well, but she also passed away when she was quite young. And then I’m the youngest one. So the eldest one and the youngest one [are] still living. 

薩迦法王：第二位是男孩，但他很早就去世了。我沒見過他，當我出生時他已經死了。第三位是另一個女兒。我對她記憶猶深，但她也很早就去世了。然後我是最小的。所以最年長的和最年輕的仍舊存活著。

Q: Still living. Amazing.

問: 還活著很驚奇。

#32U:：Yes, and then my father was in retreat and he used to give us...He’s very good in making things, like with dough—he can make small statues, small masks and so on just to play with us. He used to give [things] like this, but then my father also passed away when I was only about 6 years old. So basically it is my auntie who took care of everything. And then after that I went to several nearby Sakya...There’s another very famous monastery where I went, a place called Ngor Monastery—Ngor Monastery. There I went and received many precious teachings from my holy guru. 

薩迦法王：是的，然後我爸爸在閉關，他會給我們.......他很會製作東西， 使用生麵團來製作塑像，小面具和其它的來跟我們玩。他曾經給予類似的東西，但我父親在我六歲時就去世了。所以基本上是我姨母在照顧每件事。然後我去了薩迦數個附近...有一座很有名的寺院，一個叫Ngor寺,,Ngor寺。我去那兒從上師處接受很多珍貴的教法。

Q: Do you remember how you felt about having such an important role in your tradition that you were meant to study and become a teacher? Do you remember as a child? Did that feel strange or...? 

問: 你還記得你對在傳統中扮演如此重要的角色並去學習成為一名老師的感覺嗎？ 你還記得小時候嗎？ 覺得奇怪還是...？

#32U:：No. No, actually anyone who is born in our lineage would have to become a lama, at least lamas if not leaders. So it is kind of obviously, and then also my auntie and my teachers and also my attendants, they always advise us to be good lama and to be educated, to be good discipline and to have good disciple and good lama. They were all constantly telling us. So therefore, it is quite natural. This Ngor Monastery is very important because that is another...maybe...We don’t know exactly how far it is, but it’s quite near to Shigatse and there it’s very important because there I received the most important teaching. In Sakya tradition it’s called lamdre ‘path and its fruit.’ Lamdre, you know lamdre ?

薩迦法王：不,不, 事實上任何我們的傳承出生的人都應要成為喇嘛, 至少是喇嘛如果不是領導.

所以很明顯的, 並且我的姑母和老師和我的侍者, 他們總是建議我們成為好喇嘛和受教育, 要守紀律和有好的弟子和好喇嘛. 他們會一直告訴我們. 所以那是很自然的. 俄爾寺是很重要的因為那是另外....也許....我們不知道祂多遠, 但祂離日喀則很近並那是很重要的因為我接受了最重要的教授.

在薩迦傳統裡祂稱為"lamdre"道果"Lamdre"你知道lamdre嗎?

Q: Yes. 

問: 是的.

#32U:：That I received from a great abbot called—he’s popularly known as Dhampa Dorjee Chang—Dhampa Dorjee Chang. So he was my most important root guru. And so therefore, I received from him the most important teaching and that’s very important for me because I lived there almost two years and received many important teachings. Then later I received from his regent, also many teachings. And then later his regent came to Sakya and gave also many teachings. 

薩迦法王：我從一位偉大的堪布受學,他通常被稱為“丹巴多杰羌”.所以他是我最重要的根本上師.

那,我從他那接受最重要的教法,並那對我是很重要的,因為我住在那差不多兩年並接受很多重要教法.晚點我接受他的攝政, 和很多教法.然後他的攝政來到薩迦並給予很多教法.

I remember very well when I was about 8 years old we traveled [for the] first time to Lhasa. And that was by horse, all the way by horse all the way from Sakya to Lhasa. We went kind of slowly so it took us almost a fortnight. And there, after a few days of our arrival in Lhasa, His Holiness the Dalai Lama came from Yardong, from [the] border, from Yardong because when the Chinese first started coming he also came to Yardong, to the Indian border. So he came back. I remember that very well because he came back with a very big warm welcome and with so many lines of horses. 

我記得很清楚當我8歲時我們初次旅行到拉薩. 全程乘著馬,從薩迦乘著馬到拉薩. 我們慢慢地差不多兩星期才到. 在那, 到拉薩後幾天 達賴喇嘛尊者來到Yardong, 從邊界, 從Yardong 因為當中國人開始來時祂也來到Yardong, 到印度邊界. 所以祂回來了. 我記得很清楚因為祂回來時伴隨很溫暖的歡迎和很多馬隊.

Q: Very impressive, beautiful. 

問:很印象深刻,美好.

#32U: Yes, very impressive. 

薩迦法王：是的,很印象深刻.

Q: Very welcoming. How did he treat you? 

問: 很歡迎. 祂是怎麼對你的?

#32U: Now at that time I was very small. I went to welcome him not as a dignitary, but among with the public—among with the general public. I mean people don’t know who am I because I was very small. So I went there, just went there among the people. When there are hundreds and thousands of people waiting to see him, I’m also among them. 

薩迦法王：當時我很年幼. 我去歡迎祂沒有很顯眼的, 但在大眾中---在一般的大眾裡. 我的意思是沒人知道我是誰因為我很小. 所以我去那, 就是去大眾裡面. 當數以百和千計的人們在等待祂時, 我也在其中.

Q: Tucked away

問: 藏起來了

Then something happened. Somehow it was my karma and also the prayers and also the conditions, all three together that His Holiness the Dalai Lama nominated me as the throne holder at that time and it was in 1950. Then we went back to...came back to Sakya.

On the way back we spent some time to celebrate the New Year in my birthplace; I remember that very well. And then came back to Sakya. And we had a simple ceremony because the Sakya Prime Minister, he made the announcement that I will be the next throne holder although I was only 8 or 9 years old. We had a simple ceremony. But the big ceremony which we could not have because it needs lot of preparations and there was so many other things also. So therefore, it was kind of postponed for a number of years.

But in between these, then again I went to Lhasa. The second time I went to Lhasa from Sakya to Shigatse by horse and then from Shigatse we went by car. Second time by car and in two days we reached Lhasa. And there again also I stayed for several months and I attended the Chinese—the big conference there—the Preparatory Committee of the Autonomous Region or something. I was also very small but I represent[ed]. I went there; I remember that very well. 

薩迦法王：然後發生的事. 那是我的業力和祈請和狀態, 三個一起 達賴喇嘛尊者提名我為法座持有者當時是1950年. 然後我們回去....回到薩迦.

在回去時我們花了點時間在我出生的地方慶祝新年; 我記得很清楚. 然後回到薩迦. 因為薩迦的首相我們有了簡單的慶祝, 他宣告我是下一任的法座持有者雖然我才8或9歲. 我們有了簡單的慶典. 但大的慶典我們無法舉行因為那需要很多準備而且還有很多其它事. 因此, 延後了幾年.

但在此之間, 我又去了拉薩. 第二次我去拉薩從薩迦騎馬到日喀則從日喀則改成坐車. 第二次是坐車花了兩天到拉薩. 再次我待了數個月我出席了中國人的會議--自治區籌備委員會之類的. 我年紀很小但我代表了. 我去那; 我記得很清楚.

Q: You remember that? Good memory! 

問: 你還記得？記憶力很好！

#32U: And I also delivered a short speech. 

薩迦法王：我也做了簡短的講話

Q: You did?

問:你做了？

#32U: Yes. 

薩迦法王：是的

Q: Were you at ease or were you nervous?

問:你很放鬆或者緊張?

#32U: I was not very nervous though there are many people and there are lot of cameras and many things, but I was not so nervous because when we’re [a] very young age...I memorize many things and also I attended many assembly of monks. So therefore, gathering of many people is kind of natural. 

薩迦法王：我沒有很緊張雖然有很多相機和很多事, 但我沒有很緊張因為當我們很小的時候我記得很多事並出席很多僧人的集會. 因此, 大眾集會算是正常的.

Q: That makes sense. You were used to it in some ways.

問: 有道理. 你已經習慣了.

#32U: Yes and then I came back. Then I came back. In 1956 I came to...When His Holiness the Dalai Lama came to India to celebrate the Buddha Jayanthi 2500, Buddha’s celebrations. So he came to India and I also followed him and I came to India in 1956 and visited all the holy places of the Buddha in India and then also I visited several cities like Calcutta and then finally I went back. I went back to Tibet. And then in 1959, the beginning of 1959, I had the official, elaborate enthronement ceremony. 

薩迦法王：是的然後我回來. 然後我回來. 在1956年我去了...當 達賴喇嘛尊者去印度慶祝佛陀誕辰2500年. 所以我跟隨祂去印度並朝禮了所有印度佛教聖地並參訪數個城市如加爾各答最後我回去.

我回到西藏. 然後在1959年, 1959年初, 我正式慶祝登基.

Q: 1959. How old were you at that...? 

問:1959. 當時你幾歲...?

#32U: According to the Tibetan calendar I was about 14, maybe 13.

薩迦法王：根據藏曆我當時14歲, 也許13.

Q: You remember it very well?

問:你記得很清楚?

#32U: Oh yes, I remember that very well.

薩迦法王：是的, 我記得很清楚

Q: It must’ve been wonderful.

問:那一定很美好.

#32U: Yes. So many monks and lay people came together and we had celebrations of three days.

薩迦法王：是的. 很多僧人和居士聚集我們慶祝了三天.

Q: Was there anything that happened that was a surprise or were you pretty familiar with everything that was going to happen in that ceremony?

問: 當時有什麼讓你驚訝的事或是你很熟悉每件在慶典中將發生的事?

#32U: Pretty much, pretty much of what was happening.

薩迦法王：幾乎全部, 幾乎全部當時發生的事.

Q: So you very formally were going to be...? 

問:你很正式的將要....?

#32U: Yes, that’s right, but then unfortunately I could not stay there for long time. Soon after...I think the celebration was done in February and then April...round about April I left because then the trouble started in Lhasa.

薩迦法王：是的, 沒錯, 但不幸的是我無法在那待太久. 很快的....我想慶典在二月結束然後四月....差不多是四月我離開了因為在拉薩的動亂開始了.

Q: Yes.

問: 是的.

#32U: So we had to escape—escape, but fortunately because Sakya is actually very close to the Indian border...We don’t know exactly because there are no markers [at] that time, but we can estimate it I think...just from Sakya to the border, I don’t think there’s more than 60 kilometers. But there’s no road and by horse, it takes about three days. 

薩迦法王：所以我們必須逃離--逃難, 但幸運的是薩迦事實上離印度邊境很近....我們不知道切確的因為那時沒有里程碑, 但我們可以預測我想....從薩迦到邊境, 我不認為有超過60公里. 但沒有道路並騎馬, 花了約三天.

Q: Do you remember the journey? 

問: 你記得旅程嗎？

#32U: Yes, of course.

薩迦法王：是的, 當然.

Q: What do you remember about it?

問:你記得什麼呢？

#32U: I remember from where we started and where we stayed. Every night we stayed for two, three days. Then also I remember that everything about on this journey, I remember.

薩迦法王：我記得我們從哪開始在哪休息. 每晚我們待兩, 三天. 還有我記得旅程中的每件事, 我記得.

Q: Was it difficult or was it exciting to be...?

問: 會很困難或者振奮呢....?

#32U: Yeah, it was quite exciting.

薩迦法王：是的, 很振奮.

Q: It was quite exciting because you weren’t in danger. You were just leaving because of potential danger...

問: 那很振奮因為你不在危險. 因爲潛在的危險你離開了.....

#32U: Yes, yes.

薩迦法王：是的, 是的.

Q: ...coming.

問: .....來到

#32U: Yeah, yeah. 

薩迦法王：是的, 是的.

Q: Did people advise you to leave because of that potential danger from the Chinese?

問:有人勸你來開嗎？因為來自中國人潛在的危險

#32U: Some of my attendants who used to go to India, they advised me that as soon as when we hear there’s trouble started in Lhasa, then we should not cling; we should go immediately because otherwise, officially the Sakya Trizin cannot travel without the permission of the Central Government.

薩迦法王：我的侍者有些去過印度, 他們建議如果拉薩發生動亂我們不應該執著, 我們應該儘速離開, 正式說來薩迦法王不能沒有中央政府的允許就旅行.

Q: Oh! 

問:喔！

#32U: But of course, the trouble started. There’s the government, the government itself is also going to India. So then we ignored everything and we came to...

薩迦法王：但當然, 麻煩開始. 有政府,政府自己也前往印度. 所以我們無視所有事並前往..... 

Q: Everybody was leaving. Did you take many people with you that were part of your...

問:大家都離開. 你有帶著很多人嗎那是你的......

#32U: No, not many, only my family. My auntie was with me, the very kind auntie that looked after me for many years. She was with me and my sister is with me.

薩迦法王：不, 沒有很多, 只有我家人. 我的阿姨和我, 慈愛的阿姨照顧我很多年. 她和我的姐妹和我.

Q: And your sister came. 

問:和你的姐妹來

#32U: Yes and then just attendants, close attendants.

薩迦法王：是的和侍者, 親近的侍者

Q: Did you think you were just leaving for a short time or did you think it would be for good?

問:你有想到是短暫的離開或你想那是有利益的

#32U: I think it will be...I know it’s going to be long.

薩迦法王：我想那是....我知道它會很久

Q: You knew it was going to be long. Did you have any understanding of what the Chinese were planning at that time? Did your government, your people...?

問:你知道那將會很久. 你當時知道中國人的計畫嗎？你的政府, 你的人民...?

#32U: There were actually some Chinese people in Sakya also long before, but then the trouble started in Lhasa and everyone is focusing on Lhasa and they all went back to Lhasa. So at that time there were no Chinese, but we still have to be very careful because there are lots of spies.

薩迦法王：有些中國人原本就在薩迦待一陣了, 但當拉薩的麻煩發生時每個人都注意在拉薩並且他們全去了拉薩. 所以當時沒有中國人, 但我們仍舊很小心因為有很多特務. 

Q: Yes. 

問:是的

#32U: Tibetan spies, Tibetans who are working for the Chinese. So therefore we cannot leave openly to say that I’m going to India. I just said [I am] going to [a] pilgrimage.

薩迦法王：藏人特務, 為中國人工作的藏人. 因此我們不能公開的說要去印度. 我只說要去朝聖.

Q: Pilgrimage, a cover to go. Had you made...you obviously had a place to go to? Did you have a monastery you’re going to go to in India? Where were you going when you left?

問:朝聖, 掩飾的去. 你有做...你確實有地方去嗎？你在印度有寺院去嗎？你離開後去哪呢？

#32U: No, actually we said...There’s a hot spring place right at the border. So first we said we’re going there and then later we said we’re going to Sikkim. We said we’re not escaping, but we’re going to Sikkim to receive some teachings because a great master is living at that time in Sikkim. Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche is living—the previous Khyentse Rinpoche...The previous Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche, Khyentse Choekyi Lodoe, was living in Gangtok. So we said we’re going there to receive teachings.

薩迦法王：不, 事實上我們說...邊界有溫泉. 所以一開始我們說要去那然後我們說要去錫金. 我們說沒有要逃跑, 但我們去錫金接受教授因為有偉大的大師住在錫金. 宗薩欽哲仁波切在--前任的欽哲仁波切...前任的宗薩欽哲仁波切, 欽哲卻吉羅卓, 住在甘托克. 所以我們說我們要去接受教法. 

Q: And did you go there at all?

問:那你有去嗎？

#32U: Yes.

薩迦法王：有

Q: And did you receive the teachings?

問:你有接受教法嗎？

#32U: I could not. Unfortunately I could not receive the teachings. I received teachings before because he came to Sakya also, but I wanted to receive teachings but he was already quite ill. So therefore, I couldn’t receive teachings but I met him.

薩迦法王：我無法. 不幸的是我無法接受教法. 我在之前他來薩迦時接受過教法, 但我想要接受教法但他已經病的很重. 所以因此, 我無法接受教法但有和他見面.

Q: You did meet him.

問: 你有和他見面.

#32U: Yeah, I met him.

薩迦法王： 是的, 我見到他. 

Q: So were people very receptive and happy to see you and supportive of you?

問:所以人們很接受和開心見到你和支持你嗎？

#32U: Yes, yes. The royal family of Sikkim is somehow related to me. So they were, of course, they made the arrangements. 

薩迦法王：是的, 是. 錫金王室算是我的親戚. 所以他們是, 當然, 他們安排了一下. 

Q: And then what happens? Do you have to find a new home? What happens to you when you go?

問:然後發生了什麼? 你需要找到新家嗎？你到了之後發生了什麼？

#32U: Yes, in Sikkim first we rented a house. We stayed in a rented house. I remember the owner. In the beginning [it] was kind of little hard because he wanted a high price, but then later he didn’t charge anything. He gave us all free [rent].

薩迦法王：是的, 在錫金首先我們租了房子. 我們待在租房裡. 我記得房東. 一開始有些困難因為他要高房租, 但之後他沒收任何錢. 他免費給我們住(租).

Q: He had a very good tenant.

問:他有很好的房客.

#32U: And then after that we came to Darjeeling [India] and I stayed there about four years—four years in Darjeeling. Our first monastery was established in Goom, a place called Goom near Darjeeling—first monastery.

薩迦法王：然後我們到了大吉嶺(印度)我在那住了四年, 在大吉嶺四年. 我們第一座寺院建立在Goom, 一個叫Goom的地方靠近大吉嶺, 第一座寺院.

Q: And the people who joined that monastery were they coming from...?

問:參與第一座寺院的人來自哪裡....?

#32U: ...Sakya.

薩迦法王：...薩迦.

Q: They were coming from Sakya in Tibet?

問:他們從藏地薩迦來？

#32U: Because people keep coming, monks and nuns, and the lay people keep coming. So the lay people were all sent to different settlements. At that time many people went for road workers to make the roads and then the monks have no place to stay. So we kind of hired...there was one temple and we hired that. Later that temple was given to us. So then we established that. It’s called Sakya Guru Monastery in Goom. Now it is renovated and looks very nice.

薩迦法王：因為人們一直來, 僧人和尼眾, 和在家人也來. 所以在家人被送到不同的定居點. 在當時很多人去修路當修路工但僧人沒有地方住. 所以我們算是雇用...有間寺院我們雇用. 後來那寺院贈送給我們. 所以我們建設那. 稱祂為在Goom的薩迦Guru寺. 現在祂翻新了看起來很好.

Q: And I imagine people wanted to have teachings from you?

問:我想人們想要你教導？

#32U: No, at that time I was quite young. I was myself mostly not giving teachings, but mostly receiving teachings.

薩迦法王：不, 當時我很年幼. 我幾乎不教授, 但大都接受教導.

Q: Really?

問:真的？

#32U: Yes, yes.

薩迦法王：真的, 真的.

Q: Were you receiving them from teachers in India then?

問:你在印度有接受老師教導嗎？

#32U: Yes, yes.

薩迦法王：是的, 是的.

Q: And Tibetan teachers or Sakya teachers?

問: 藏人老師或薩迦老師？

#32U: Sakya teachers.

薩迦法王：薩迦老師

Q: Sakya teachers who were already in India?

問: 已經在印度的薩迦派老師嗎？

#32U: Who came—who came...some of them with me and some of them later. 

薩迦法王：已經到達--已經到達的...有些和我一起有些晚點.

Q: That was a big change of culture from Tibet to India.

問:從藏地到印度是很大的文化改變

#32U: Yes, it was a big change.

薩迦法王：是的, 是很大的改變.

Q: How did you do it? Was it easy? 

問:你如何處理？容易嗎？

#32U: And also climate. Climate and everything is changed. Everything is a big change.

薩迦法王： 還有天氣. 天氣和每件事都變了. 每件事都很大改變.

Q: The air, the food, the climate because you went from a beautiful cold clear air...?

問:空氣, 食物, 和氣候因為你來自於美麗乾淨的空氣....

#32U: But Darjeeling is a nice place. Darjeeling is a nice place.

薩迦法王：但大吉嶺是很好的地方. 大吉嶺是好地方.

Q: I know many people have gone there.

問：我知道很多人去那.

#32U: It looks like England. It looks very much because I remember when we first came to Darjeeling, Darjeeling has still very English, English atmosphere. Because there were churches, there were clubs and there were many English people also. At that time—it was not [a] long time ago before that India got independence. So still there were many...many of Darjeeling teagardens are owned by British families. So there were many Westerners also.

薩迦法王：它看起來像英國. 很像我記得當我們初到大吉嶺時, 大吉嶺還是很英倫, 英倫氛圍. 因為教堂, 有俱樂部還有很多英國人. 當時--印度獨立還沒有很久. 所以仍有很多很多的茶園被英國人家族擁有. 所以有很多西方人.

Q: You liked the climate?

問：你喜歡它的天氣嗎？

#32U: Yes.

薩迦法王：是的

Q: Yes, they did. So that was a big change. So gradually you kept getting more teachings of your own and maturing...

問：是的, 它是的. 所以是很大的改變. 你逐漸的教導和成熟....

#32U: Yes.

薩迦法王：是的.

Q: ...all those years.

問：...在那些年.

#32U: And I lived in Darjeeling about four years.

薩迦法王：我在大吉嶺住了約四年

Q: Four years and then what happens to you?

問：四年有發生什麼事嗎？

#32U: Then in 1962 there was a war between China and India in the Bomdila side and there was kind of danger, a sense of danger. So we came here [Rajpur]. We went to Dharamsala, actually. We went to Dharamsala to see His Holiness [the Dalai Lama] and then also we got some advice from the [government] officers there. They said...Because we are also afraid of the heat in India—heat...We could not bear the heat if we have to live in plains. It’ll be very hot for us. It’s not suitable for us. So we said, “Where is the best place, cool place?” And they [the officials] suggested Mussoorie. Mussoorie is cool and it’s nice. So they said, “You should go to Mussoorie.” So we went to Mussoorie. It was in January—December or January—and people...When we reached there the people are saying, “Why [do] you go to Mussoorie in January. Mussoorie is so cold.” [Laughs]

薩迦法王：在1962年中國和印度在Bomdila發生戰爭很危險, 危險的感覺. 所以我們來到這[Rajpur].我們去了達蘭薩拉, 我們去達蘭薩拉見 達賴喇嘛尊者我們也從政府官員處得到了建議. 他們說--因為我們也怕印度的炎熱...如果住在平地我們無法忍受炎熱. 那將會很熱. 那不適合. 所以我們問, "哪裡是最好的, 涼的地方?" 官員們建議Mussoorie. Mussoorie是涼爽的好地方. 所以他們說, “你應該去Mussoorie.”所以我們去了Mussoorie. 那是介於1月和12月或1月--然後人們...當我們到達那人們說, “為何你1月到Mussoorie.Mussoorie很冷”[笑]

Q: And you’re saying “Good.” 

問：你說"好".

#32U: So we went to Mussoorie and I lived in Mussoorie about six years.

薩迦法王：所以我們去了Mussoorie 並住在Mussoorie 約六年

Q: So the climate agreed with you?

問：你適應天氣嗎？

#32U: Yes.

薩迦法王：是的.

Q: It did?

問：喔？

#32U: Yes. And then we established the monastery here, in Rajpur in the late ‘60s. ’64 actually, we started in’64. So I keep coming. Sometimes...wintertime I come here and summertime I stayed in Mussoorie. I keep doing...traveling. Then later it was not so convenient and moreover we are sort of more now used to the heat. So we came down and since 1971, then I lived here in Rajpur—since 1971.

薩迦法王：是的. 然後我們在這建立了寺院, 在Rajpur 60年代末. 64年事實上, 我們從64年開始. 所以我一直來. 有時候...冬天 我來這有時住在Mussoorie. 我持續旅行. 之後沒有那麼方便而且也適應了炎熱. 所以我們下來了從1971年, 然後我住在 Rajpur--從1971年.

Q: You adjusted to the heat.

問：你適應了炎熱.

#32U: Yes.

薩迦法王：是的

Q: So this has become the center?

問：所以這裡成了中心

#32U: Yes.

薩迦法王：是的

Q: How did you find funds to build such a beautiful community here and in Puruwala— Puruwala, where we’re going to go next?

問：你是如何找到金援並在和Puruwala這建立如此美麗的社群— Puruwala, 接下來我們去哪？

#32U: Yes, yes. It was all due to the blessings of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, who was very kind. He gave us the blessings and guidance and support. Then also the Government of India and the government of...the local government, they were all very kind to us. Then also the funds are a concern—the European Refugee Campaign, they help us to pay many...

薩迦法王：是的, 是的. 因為達賴喇嘛尊者慈悲的加持. 祂加持我們和支持和指導. 然後印度政府和地方政府, 他們對我們都很仁慈. 還有資金和關懷--歐洲難民運動, 他們金援我們...

Q: I see. So support from many streams...

問：嗯. 所以有多方的支持...

#32U: Yes, yes.

薩迦法王：是的, 是.

Q: ...helped you to build.

問：幫助你建設.

#32U: Yes, yes.

薩迦法王：是的, 是.

Q: That’s exciting. I mean it was a very good move. 

問：很振奮. 我意思是那是很好的進展.

#32U: [Smiles]

薩迦法王：[微笑]

Q: Right because Tibet got too dangerous for you, right...?

問：因為藏地對你太危險是嗎...？

#32U: That’s right.

薩迦法王：是的.

Q: ...over those years. So is this where you think you’re going to continue to stay?

問：...在那些年. 所以這是你認為你會繼續待著?

#32U: Yes, yes, sure, sure.

薩迦法王：是的, 是, 確定,確定.

Q: But you travel so much, too. 

問：但你也旅行很多.

#32U: But now you know...you know that now we have made some changes.

薩迦法王：但現在你知道的...你知道的我們現在已經做了些改變.

Q: Yes, I heard a big one recently.

問：是的, 我近來聽到一大消息.

#32U: Yes, that’s right. Now I have given...I have retired and my position is given to the young Khon lineage holders. The eldest one is my own son, my eldest son. Very recently, just very recently on March 9th we had the enthronement ceremony.

薩迦法王：是的, 沒錯. 現在我已給...我已經退休和我的地位給予了年輕的昆氏家族持有. 最年長的是我的兒子, 我最老的兒子. 才最近, 在最近的三月九號我們有了坐床典禮.

Q: We were honored to meet you so soon afterwards in retirement.

問：我們很榮幸在您剛退休就見到您.

#32U: [Laughs]

薩迦法王：[笑]

Q: How do you like retirement?

問：你喜歡退休嗎?

#32U: It is still the same because people keep coming and I’m still quite busy, but hopefully later it’ll...

薩迦法王：仍然一樣因為人們繼續來我仍舊忙碌, 但希望未來將會...

Q: ...slow down.

問：...緩下來.

#32U: I’m just actually making an announcement, from now onwards the official ceremonies and official meetings, conferences and everything will be done in the name of the new Sakya Trizin.

薩迦法王：我才發了公告, 接著就是正式的典禮和見面, 會議和每件事將會以新的薩迦法王完成. 

Q: Wonderful and what would you like to do with your retirement if you have less of those regular obligations? How would you like to spend your days?

問：你退休後喜歡做什麼呢如果你少了常態的責任?你喜歡如何規劃你的日子?

#32U: First thing is that I’m writing my own biography.

薩迦法王：首先我正在寫我的自傳.

Q: Really?

問：真的?

#32U: Which I have already done...which I have already done, but it still needs lots of corrections and changes and to make final decisions that I wanted to do long time, but because so many other things happen that I could not finish that. So I wanted to finish that. That is my number one project. 

薩迦法王：我已經寫完了...我已經寫完, 但仍舊需要做很多的修改去完成需要花很多時間, 但因為很多其它事發生我無法完成. 所以我想要完成它.  那是我首要的計畫. 

Q: That will help a lot of people understand the decisions you made, how your life unfolded. That’s a very big task. Do you have someone to help you?

問：那會幫助大家知道你做的決定, 你的生活如何展開. 那是大任務. 你有其他人幫你嗎？

#32U: Yes, yes.

薩迦法王：有的, 有.

Q: Do you have a publisher ready, somebody?

問：你已經有出版商了嗎?

#32U: No, no, no. Publisher is not ready because it’s in Tibetan; actually it’s in Tibetan.

薩迦法王：不, 不, 不. 出版商還沒準備好因為那是藏文; 事實是用藏文.

Q: Oh, it’s going to be in Tibetan?

問：喔, 是用藏文出版？

#32U: It’s in Tibetan, but of course, once I finish in Tibetan and publish, then it’s easy to translate.

薩迦法王：是藏文, 但當然, 只要我藏文完成並出版, 那就很容易翻譯了.

Q: It’s easy to get it once you get it done.

問：那是很容易當你完成後.

#32U: Yes.

薩迦法王：是的.

Q: That’s going to...that doesn’t sound like an easy retirement, right?

問：那將會...聽起來不是輕鬆的退休, 對吧?

#32U: [Laughs] Actually, I have already...general draft is finished.

薩迦法王：[笑]事實上, 我已經...普遍都已經完成.

Q: It’s already finished.

問：已經完成了.

#32U: But I still need [to make] lot of changes because I wrote in a hurry. So therefore, there are lots of holes, a lot of things need to be add, some needs to be subtracted and some needs to be added...things like that.

薩迦法王：但我還需要做很多改變因為我快速的寫完. 因此, 有很多缺失, 需要增加很多東西, 有些需要刪除和有些需要增加...諸如此類.

Q: You’re going to be a hard editor on yourself.

問：你自己將要辛苦的編輯.

#32U: [Smiles]

薩迦法王：[笑]

Q: What do you think would be the importance of writing a book for you? What do you want to make sure that that book will do, that autobiography?

問：你認爲為什麼寫自傳很重要?你希望這本書可以帶來什麼?

#32U: As a lama and as a head, that it is important to write I feel, so that people will know how to be, how the lama’s life starts and study and continue right up until now.

薩迦法王：作為喇嘛首領, 寫下我的感覺是重要的, 人們才會知道如何,  喇嘛的生活如何開始和學習直到現在. 

Q: I see, how their lives evolve. Because this is an ancient tradition...

問：喔, 他們的生活演變. 因為這是古老的傳統...

#32U: Yes.

薩迦法王：是的

Q: In your opinion, do you think the tradition will continue for many centuries to come? 

問：在你的意見, 你認爲這傳統還會延續很多個世紀嗎？

#32U: Hopefully, yes, hopefully.

薩迦法王：希望, 是的, 希望能

Q: Hopefully, yes. That’ll be really wonderful then to have a book and to have this videotape of you.

問：希望, 是的. 那有這書和你的錄像帶將會很美妙.

#32U: Yes.

薩迦法王：是的.

Q: Are there things you feel the Sakya tradition has to offer to the world, the bigger world, not just your followers that you think is important today? What teachings from the heart of the Sakya tradition are important for the world?

問：你認為薩迦傳承需要給予全世界, 這大世界, 不只是你的跟隨者你認為現今是重要的嗎?什麼樣的薩迦傳承心法對這世界是重要的?

#32U: I think the Buddhist teaching is very important—relevant in this modern time— because I mean, generally, I believe all the religions, all the world’s major religions are important for different reasons...for different people just like we need many different medicines for different diseases, one medicine does not cure every disease. So each disease you need a different medicine. So therefore, the variety of spiritual practice is necessary to a variety of the people. But the Buddhist teaching is very relevant in this modern age because it is not just...Buddha’s teaching itself says that you should not just go by faith alone.

薩迦法王：我想佛法是很重要的--相應現代--因為我的意思是, 普遍性, 我相信所有的宗教, 世上所有的主流宗教都有不同原因而很重要...為了不同的人像我們需要不同的藥物去對應不同的疾病, 一種藥不能治療每種疾病. 所以每種疾病你需要不一樣的藥. 因此, 各種的心靈修練是對應到各種人. 但佛陀的教法是對現代很相應的因為祂不僅僅...佛陀的教法祂說你不能只有信仰.

There are two types of people: those who are less wise should go by faith, but those who are more wise, they should go with logical reasons. And that is very scientific because science also examines and they investigate and then go. So Buddhism also goes in this line. So therefore it is very...it is very suitable to go along with the science. So therefore, I think the Buddhist teaching is very important in today’s world, and also the Sakya teachings.

有兩種人: 那些不那麼聰明的人應該要信仰, 但那些較聰明的人需要邏輯理由. 那是很科學的因為科學也驗證和檢視. 所以佛教也走這條線. 因此是很...很適合很科學的. 所以, 我想佛教對當今的世界很重要, 薩迦派也是.

Although all the Tibetan Buddhist schools are the same, there’s no difference, but each has its own kind of special character[istics]. Some schools emphasize more on meditation, some schools emphasize more on the study, some schools emphasize more on...But our school emphasizes equally, on study as well as meditation, together. So that is like...that is like [a] more special characteristic, and with that we can make some contributions to the wider— what should I say—audience or the variety of people.

雖然所有的藏傳佛教宗派都是一樣的, 沒有不同, 但每派都有祂自宗的特色[學派]. 有些較注重禪修, 有些較注重學習, 有些較注重...但我們宗兩者都注重, 在學習和禪修, 一起. 所以那就像....那是像特色, 但因此我們可以做些寬闊的貢獻--我應如何說呢--觀眾或多樣的人們.

Q: Yes, yes, I think you’re right that there is a scientific curiosity these days about the mind. How does the mind work? And a Buddhist said, “Yes, let’s study the mind. Let’s look at your mind, how everything changes, everything is unsatisfactory and everything is different than you think it is.” So this is wonderful. So you have a wonderful retirement planned to write your book. And will you continue to teach?

問：是的, 是, 我想你是對的今日科學對心識很好奇. 心是如何運作的? 而佛教徒說, “是的, 來研究心, 看著你的心, 每件事如何改變, 每件事不滿意或不是你所想的" 所以這很美妙. 所以你有美好的退休計畫去寫你的書. 你會繼續教導嗎? 

#32U: Yes, I’ll continue to teach. The administration part and the special duties to attend the conferences and ceremonies, that part I retired, but teaching I will still do. I will still do it.

薩迦法王：是的, 我將會繼續教學. 行政的部分和特別的責任和出席會議和慶典, 這部分我已經退休, 但我會繼續教學. 我將會繼續. 

Q: That’s beautiful. And will you still travel around the world, do you think? 

問：那很美. 你還會繼續世界旅行嗎, 你的想法?

#32U: Yes, yes. I will as long as I am fit.

薩迦法王：是, 是. 如果我適合的話. 

Q: As long as you’re fit. Well, I hope that you stay fit for a long, long, long time.

問：如果你適合的話. 我希望你適合很久很久很久.

#32U: [Laughs]

薩迦法王[笑]

Q: Because the world needs good teachers, many good teachers like you. Is there anything else that you would like to add? I’m so grateful for the time you’ve given us, but I want to be respectful of your retirement.

問：因為世界需要好老師, 很多像你一樣的好老師. 你有任何需要補充的嗎? 我很感謝你花時間給我們, 但我想尊敬你的退休.

#32U: [Laughs] I wanted to say to the people that we all are [the] same human beings—all our needs, our difficulties and everything that is needed. Everyone is longing for happiness whether you are Buddhist or non-Buddhist, whether you are believers or non-believers; everyone is longing to accomplish the happiness. Everyone is busy to find the happiness and happiness [you] could not find through wealth, or through power or through force— anything like that. Happiness you have to find through training your own mind.

薩迦法王[笑]我想告訴人們的是我們都是一樣的人--我們需要, 我們的困境和每件事需要的. 每個人都渴望幸福不管你是不是佛教徒, 不管你有沒有信仰; 每個人都渴望獲得幸福. 每個人都為了獲得幸福而忙碌而幸福不會經由財富而找到, 或經由權力或力量--諸如此類. 你必須經由訓練你的心而獲得幸福. 

When your mind is trained with love and compassion and tolerance to everyone, then you will find the happiness—not in other ways. If your mind is controlled with negative emotions, there’s no way to find the happiness. So the only way to find the happiness is that your mind...The mind qualities, like loving kindness, compassion and forgiveness and tolerance—these have to be practiced as it is given in the teachings. And then one can make one’s life purposeful, and that means [you] yourself will feel happy and also you’ll be able to benefit your surroundings.

當你的心是訓練成對任何人愛與慈悲和包容, 哪你將會找到幸福--不在其它方式. 如果你的心被負面情緒控制, 那不可能找到幸福. 所以找到幸福僅有的方式是你的心...心的品質, 像是仁慈, 慈悲和原諒和包容--這需要按照教法中給出的方式進行實踐。行者就可以讓他的生命有目標, 那就表示你自己將會快樂和你會帶給身邊的人利益.

Q: That’s a very good recipe for happiness. Thank you.

問：那是幸福很好的處方. 謝謝

#32U: Thank you.

薩迦法王：謝謝

Q: That’s beautiful. 

問：那很美

END OF INTERVIEW 

訪問結束